ELSEWHERE

Ned paid us a visit last Saturday, and after a couple of cups of coffee (with Chris it used to be beer) the idea of purchasing a piece of land to be used as a retreat (day, week, month, whatever) by the owners (presumably limited to Gateleys) bubbled up (as it has occasionally in the past), Since then we have talked briefly with Chris, Kyle, and Brian, all of whom expressed a definite interest although one tempered a bit by the mention of money...

The purpose of this communication is to pass along some thoughts and to solicit some opinions and ideas. It is not clear that anything approaching an agreement can be reached before the year 2000, but it seems to be worth a shot.

The prospect of having a more or less remote spot where we could go to relax, get away from the city stresses and strains, and let the dogs run around a bit is very appealing. To some extent the national forests offer these amenities, but there is always the uncertainty of finding a suitable place plus the unpredictable presence of unpredictable people. The This is OUR land concept is a powerful one!

Each participant would contribute a certain amount initially to purchase the land and then some annually for taxes, maintenance and improvements. Equal amounts for all participants would be simpler, but maybe "minority" partners should be accommodated.

Many land sellers will carry a loan. My impression is that 25% down and a 5-year loan at 12% is fairly common (these terms translate into $22.24 per month per $1000). I do not anticipate any difficulty coming up with the 25% down payment because we (K & B) can certainly put in our full share of cash.

(Note: I have seen 10 year, 12% ($14.35/month/$1000) and 20 year 12% ($11.01/month/$1000) loans also.)

Our initial thought was a total per person of up to $5,000 which would provide up to maybe $20,000. Conversation with Kyle and Brian (and a few misgivings of my own) suggest that half that half of that might be a more palatable and hence more realistic value. Assuming that five participants at $2,500 each, we would have $12,500 and the loan payments (for each of four partners after the 25% down) would be between $25 and $50 per month. It should be noted that investing $2,500 has a perpetual cost of, say, $200 per year, based on the assumption that one could invest that money at 8% -- in other words, there would be a "hidden cost" of membership. In addition, there would be the payment of property taxes plus additional money for improvements on the land if so desired.

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This table show some price and size data. Most of this is fairly recent. Presumably the lists are not complete, but they are certainly suggestive -- in particular, they seem to suggest that the Wet Mountain Valley is probably our best bet. However the other areas shouldn't be completely ruled out. I have no data at all for South Park, but I think it definitely needs to be checked out. (I'll admit a certain emotional bias toward that area...).

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It might be desirable to establish a non-profit corporation to own and manage the property. In this case the people involved would be stockholders of the corporation. This approach might ease the problems of unequal financial participation, of bailing out, and of having an excessive numbers of names on the deed. Because of the limited number of grandchildren, we should be able to avoid most of the ownership problems facing Oakdene, but even here a corporation might be useful. Of course I don't really know what I'm talking about here or how to form a corporation or how much it would cost to do so, but some research might be desirable. (note: I've got a request in for a couple of pertinent books from the library which may shed some light on the subject).

Ned suggested the possibility of a cheap, used house trailer - at least initially. Building a simple cabin, cottage, house, hotel, etc. would be fun (?) and could be done over several years. Of course, tents are cheap and simple and don't raise the property taxes...

Land away from existing power lines is generally cheaper (it costs about $12,000 per mile to get power lines in we were told last summer) but has the disadvantage of no electricity! Survival without amps and volts is possible (consider Oakdene), and of course there is always the possibility of using wind or solar power.

The restraints suggested so far are two hours from Colorado Springs (Kyle) and three hours from Denver (Ned). The leaves quite a bit of room in which to search. The table below list distances (measured on my Colorado map in the bathroom) from C.S. and Denver to several localities:

Being members of the more-or-less retired cohort (more time, less money), we will volunteer to make some preliminary investigations to several areas: Upper Arkansas Valley (Buena Vista), South Park (Fairplay) Pikes Peak (Divide, etc.), Wet Mountain Valley (Westcliffe), and points in between. We will contact real estate agents, lay out our requirements, and inspect possible places. Kyle suggested using their camcorder to allow everyone to see the various spots, and we will plan on doing that. If and when we have found some likely candidates, we will try to set up a visit by everyone for final assessments.

I think that time and effort can be reduced if we can have a general consensus of what is really wanted and how much we are willing to pay. To this end I've created a little questionnaire on the next page which, if everyone returns in a timely fashion, will assist in doing this (a few iterations may be required). With luck, we can get this done in a month or so, and the search can get under way this spring!

Badger Lane:

^{This is located just
south of Pike Trails which in turn is about five miles northwest
of Guffy. It has a small house (720 sf), well, and septic. It was in a nice setting and would be a good prospect for a retirement
place or if we were definitely going to put in a house and well.
We include it here only because the agents insisted on showing it
to us.}

^{Lost Park 215:}

^{This sits in the middle
of Lost Park. There is a long valley along the western boundary,
and the land slopes upward then to the east. There seem to be
excellent views from the top. Lots of trees. We didn't look too
closely because of the superiority (by our judgment) of the other
Lost Park parcel (q.v.).}

Freshwater 14:

This is a very secluded and mostly vertical piece of land a few miles south of Guffy. It has a fair view and some trees. It goes from a ridge down to a valley bottom and includes a couple of small plateaus on which one could camp or put up a cabin. Access could be difficult with snow or mud.

Silverheels 107:

This is in a development a few miles northwest of Fairplay. There are only a few trees on it and is included here only because we took a cursory look at it and because it indicates the price of land in that region.

Note to Barbara

We inquired at Moore and Co. in Fairplay about Summit County land (which of course includes land north of Dillon). They indicated that land there is two to four times more expensive than that around Fairplay.

PikeTrails 40:

This sits at almost the top of this development. It is neither remote nor secluded and is mostly vertical. The small flat portion borders the road- There are quite a few trees and a nice view (including Pikes Peak) to the east. Electric and phone services are available at the doorstep.

Bighorn 6:

This is located about 15 miles southwest of Canon City, is fairly remote and quite secluded. It Is one of several forty acre parcels which have been cut out of a ranch. The land is quite flat with some trees and adjoins BLM land on one side. (n.b.: BLM land is public land and is available for anyone to use if one can get access.) Access is a bit difficult now and could easily be worse.

Lost Park 264:

This is located a few miles north of Tarryall Reservoir in a development which is completely surrounded by Pike National Forest land (in fact, one side of the property is adjacent to the forest land). There is a nice mixture of pines and aspens on the property and some good building or camping sites with very nice views which include Pikes Peak and the reservoir. The site is not remote and should be easily accessible throughout the year (the roads In the development are all county maintained). There are some closish neighbors, but one can feel quite secluded at many places on the land. Camping on the land is permitted as are camping trailers (which cannot be be left on the land year around). Mobile homes are not allowed. The minimum size house is 400 square feet; county regulations require adequate insulation for any building. Electric power is not available but may be at some time in the future. A septic system is required; the simplest is a vaulted privy (basically a closed tank) which would cost in the vicinity of $1500 to install. There are what appear to be very reasonable covenants for the development, but both because of and in spite of these restrictions, we are very high on this property.

Owner fees are $20 per year. Ownership includes the rights to use a 15 mile private stretch of the Tarryall river for fishing.

The sale terms are $2000 down, assume an existing 11% mortgage of about $8400 with payments of $184.70 per month, and further assume a second mortgage to the current owner for the balance of about $6600 (the terms for the second are not set but would probably be 10% for 5 to 10 years; with seven years the monthly payment would be about $110). It Is clear that we could be in difficulty here. Refinancing the whole thing would be desirable but may not be possible.

Freshwater 6+7:

These are two adjacent parcels in a small valley a few miles from Guffy. One parcel includes a very small stream. The other - separated from the first by a road which is used by a ranch down the valley - goes part way up the hill.

Foxtail 169:

Located in the Foxtail subdivision a few miles southwest of Fairplay. Ned and Barb will recognize this land because we parked nearby and even passed over. it on our skiing expeditions to Tie Hack. It is 2/3 open and 1/3 treed with a great view. It is currently very secluded but there are numerous lots close by, so one can expect near neighbors sometime in the future. It has ready access to Pike National Forest. It is a generator lot which means electric power is not available.

Iron Mountain 25:

The Iron Mountain development is located about 15 miles south of Parkdale which in turn is about 12 miles west of Canon City on Highway 50. It is quite accessible but is fairly remote and secluded. This lot is probably 2/3 open and flatish and 1/3 treed and hillish. There are some nice views from up on the hill.

Pike Trails 147:

This consists of a pleasant but unexciting shallow valley and some of the adjacent hillsides. There are some trees and lots of open space.

Estates of Colorado:

This parcel consists of four 5-acre lots and is located about 6 miles southwest of Hartsel. One lot contains a nifty nob with a great view; the others are at the base of the nob and have maybe 25% tree cover. The place is fairly remote but is not secluded, there being a number of houses within view.

Iron Mountain X:

This is close to Iron Mountain 25. It is almost completely treed and is quite hilly. It actually consists of three separate lots, one 10 acre and two 5 acre. A road serving one house to the north goes through the middle of the property. The east boundary adjoins BLM land. We walked to the top one hill and found a very nice view but did not investigate the entire property (even the agent wasn't too sure of exactly where the corners were). We liked this place

Nine Mile Heights:

This parcel is remote and secluded. It consists of some almost (but not quite) treeless hills with two or three valleys. Out-of-the-world views but not much else...

South Park Meadows:

A hillside lot adjacent to a little valley with a year around stream in the middle of South Park. There are three or four trees. We ate lunch here and enjoyed watching the geese and ducks on the stream and a small pond, but we wouldn't want to live here.

Sunday, Ned, Kyle & Pam came to our place for a briefing. There was general agreement that LP 264 is a strong possibility (Kyle seems to have some reservations though - he likes the sound of the Bighorn property, probably the large, flat area appeals to his golfing instincts)! We left it at them going up to look at it next weekend if possible, and then if all is well go ahead and make an offer.

We devised a financing plan which allows us to offer cash - will probably try $15,000 to start.

Kith talked to Chris about LP 264. He would prefer more seclusion but is probably amenable to the purchase.

We submitted an offer for $14,500 (at Ned's suggestion) and it was accepted. (Ernest money of $500)

We extracted $14,500 from our money pot, and put it into the checking account, so it is available for immediate use.

Note: "holt" means "a wooded hill" (among other things). It seemed appropriate and was added to the name.

During this period, much has been done. The land itself remains pretty much unaltered, but several structures

The first was the Necessary, a pit privy with a small building which enclosed the seating arrangement

The second was the Pavilion, an open-air structure in which to hold gatherings and offer some protection

The next was Kith and Bill's cabin which was followed by Barb and Ned's cabin

* Bill built the 10' x 12' cabin in the driveway at 3201 w. Platte in Colorado Springs. It was constructed so as to be able to be dismantled into several parts which were later loaded into a U-Haul truck, transported to Eitrholt and reassembled. It originally had plastic windows, but they were later replaced with glass. The solar panel above the door furnishes power to a 12-volt car battery which in turn provides electricity for several small fluorescent light fixtures in the cabin. The only maintenance required is to add water to the battery once or twice a year. Most remarkable!

Selection criteria: Maximum price: $20,000; Minimum Size: 5 acres
Wet Mt. Valley		Arkansas Valley		Pikes Peak		Other
Dollars	Acres	Dollars	Acres	Dollars	Acres	Dollars	Acres
2590	6.5	16000	40.0	7500	5.5	9500	18.7
3990	8.8			8900	6.2	10000	6.7
3990	5.1			9900	8.5
3990	8.8			18000	35.0
...
10000	5.4
15995	35.0
19950	35.0

to/from:	C.S.	Denver
Buena Vista	87	114
Cripple Creek	40	94
Cotopaxi	74	128
Fairplay	78	79
Guffy	53	107
Westcliffe	74	128

EITR LAND SEARCH SUMMARY
NAME	DOLLARS	ACRES	AGENCY
Badger Lane	28,000	20.0	Mtn. States
Lost Park 215	20,500	8.6	Jefferson Realty
Freshwater 14	20,000	46.9	Guffy Land Co.
Silverheels 107	18,500	5.2	Jefferson Realty
Pike Trails 40	18,000	35.0	Guffy Land Co.
Bighorn 6	17,900	39.9	Ed Herzog
Lost Park 262	17,000	9.4	Jefferson Realty
Freshwater 6 + 7	16,000	18.0	Guffy Land Co.
Foxtail 169	13,500	2.5	Moore & Co.
Pike Trails 147	13,000	20.0	Mtn. States
Iron Mt. 25	12,100	22.1	Ed Herzog
Estates of Colorado	12,000	20.0	Mtn. States
Iron Mountain X	10,250	20.8	Ed Herzog
Nine Mile Heights	8,000	35.0	Mtn. States
South Park Meadows	4,700	18.0	Mtn. States

Kip & Kiva at The Gateley cabin	Kip, Jordan, Chelsea, Kith, Kiva & Ned with Kip, Snips & Kiva	Kith & Kip in the cabin	Chelsea & Jordan at the pond	Putting the roofing on Kith & Bill's cabin*	A very dry Tarryall Reservoir August 7, 2002

Looking into the pavilion	A Large Family Party at the Pavilion	A rather dry Tarryall reservoir in 2002-3-?	Kith, Alex, Zach & Bill in front of the Necessary	Kith & Bill's occupied cabin	Kith leaning out of the window hole